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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:58 pm 
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THC1989 wrote:
Sephsta wrote:
Cloud Kicks Squall's ass


It's always nice with a well augmented statement.. hehe ;)

I felt more close to cloud then I did Squall, Squall relies on using his Guardian Force when Cloud can kill with his overly sized buster sword.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Sephsta wrote:
I felt more close to cloud then I did Squall, Squall relies on using his Guardian Force when Cloud can kill with his overly sized buster sword.


Well I didn’t really fell that close to either of them, their Weltsmertz attitude was a bit too much for me to handle. But whoever we felt close to is really not the question here; the question was who would win in a battle. I have already written a rather long explanation on why I think Squall would win. But back to your argument, I don’t follow your argument, why should the fact that Squall relies on GF’s to boost his powers count towards his defeat? Because I think that is what you meant. If you meant that Squall summons his GF’s more during battle than Cloud I would have to say that, that depends on how you play the game, because I see no gameplay indications that Squall summons his GF’s more.

And as a finishing statement, I have a hard time seeing how an overly sized buster sword should give a winning edge to Cloud, if it only depended on size I guess Sephiroth would have won?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:36 am 
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w-summon + KoR and Final Attack Materia + Phoenix = endgame - Cloud wins, every time.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:35 pm 
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Agree with above poster Kotr, Squall is dead like 10 times


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:48 pm 
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Fithosol wrote:
w-summon + KoR and Final Attack Materia + Phoenix = endgame - Cloud wins, every time.


Well that is just an effect in game combination that has proved its worth against in game enemies. It is a combination that has been proven useful against enlarged monsters, the remains of a former mighty alien and a lunatic, but we have no way of knowing how this would work against more mighty monsters? As I stated in my earlier argument; trying to compare only on brute strength, limit breaks and equipment does not really reveal who has the upper hand in this battle. The combination you mentioned might be rather useful against the enemies Cloud has to deal with, but we have no way of knowing how it would work against Squall or the enemies Squall has to deal with. Because as I see it, no matter how you put it, no matter what combinations of equipment you might suggest for Cloud, one final truth remain the same: None of the enemies Cloud has to deal with can even closely compare to those Squall has to deal with. Through the story Squall deals with enemies which is far superior to those Clouds has to deal with. As I still see it, the only way we can compare the abilities of those two would be to compare those enemies they deal with in their own game.
If what I try to say is unclear let my try to tell it in another way. If I easily kill an ant and you with some more trouble kill a lion, then it would seem unfair to judge our abilities against each other, on how easy we killed our prey. Naturally we have no way of knowing how we would do against each other, without having an actual fight. Would it not be most fair to consider your fighting abilities superior to mine since you killed a more superior prey, even though it was with more difficulty? You might then argue that I would have been able to kill the lion with just as great ease as I killed the ant, if only I had been given the chance. That may be, but since the chance was never given we have no way of knowing what might have been.

(If you want to know why I conclude the enemies of Squall superior to those of Cloud, please consult the response I placed on Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:13 pm, it is on page 5)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:28 pm 
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That makes no sense... I'm talking damage vs damage... Squall has no 'auto-revive' abilities. Final attack materia + phoenix gives Cloud essentially 6 lives that squall would have to go through... when in all actuality either of them could kill the other in one hit. And that's not even some of the cheap combo's I've recently discovered (spanked emerald, ruby, and sephiroth last night)

w-magic + comet2 + Quadra Magic = pwn
w-magic + shield (no damage taken for a few turns) + Ultima

And how can you say Ruby and Emerald weapon don't compare to the enemies Squall fought? Ruby counters with ultima... no enemy in FFVIII counters with ultima... Emerald kills your entire (lvl 99 with best equipment) party in one move (Aire Tam Storm) at his whims... No enemy in FFVIII does that... So some crusty sorceress is more powerful than the physical incarnations of the planet itself, designed to destroy all life and reset the planet to a pure state? Methinks not :P

To say that anything can stand up against cloud with final attack materia linked to phoenix is just absurd... when you link KotR with MP Absorb and have w-summon and mime... Cloud does 260,000 damage a round and heals 2600mp and can do this endlessly and with the aforementioned f.a.m - phoenix link autorevives 5 times... and Squall has what exactly that could stand up against that?

And if I kill a lion with a surface to air missle and you kill an ant by telekinetically harnassing the sun and crashing it into the earth... you see where I'm going with this...

Point is, they both would kill each other in one move, difference is, Cloud would get back up afterwards :D


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:18 am 
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Gameplay will obviously make Cloud stronger, but what if we put them barehanded, no junctions for Squall, no materias for Cloud?

That's the point this topic tried to take, and he justified it by talking about character's physical status and personality, and stuff.

Obviously in an FFVII Fan sub-forum, most will like Cloud.

Sadly, whatever person that wishes to could be able to manipulate them, in fact, Sephiroth does. Many times. Ultimecia? Barely. They're too weak emotionally, so putting them in a ring would be like a fight of robots, no motivation of winning, therefore, no true superiority from any of them. However, I think Cloud would win the match, simply because his training as a Soldier was much harsher than Squall's as a SeeD.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:02 am 
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Cloud never made it into SOLDIER, at least Squall graduated.

No eq, no materia, no junctions? Motivation and Skill on Motivation and Skill?

Neither, they both loose, they both sit in the corner and emo themselves to death, pondering their own existences until they both die of old age... so really it comes down to who's younger. AHAHAHAAAA :lol


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:04 pm 
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well, my theory is, it depends who is playign them , how they leveled them, what magic they have or skills they learnedXD

they would bth die in one hit like fith said, and also wouldnt fight cos theyr both sitting in thier own emo corner bing emo and seeing who can bring themselves to ACTUALLy slit thier wrists first, whilst dying of old age

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:50 am 
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AHAHAHAHA pwnd by emo-ness


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:52 am 
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In that case Cloud wins, Squall was an emo since he was four, Cloud however started being an emo when he was... Around ten I guess?

Therefore, Squall comitts suicide a few years earlier than Cloud, and Cloud wins.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:17 am 
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Okay Fithosol I think it’s pointless to compare damage given in two different games during battle, as LeonPayne so gracefully showed us, if we compared on actually in game str. and in game damage then we would have to conclude that neither Squall nor Cloud stood any chance against the all mighty Tidus(?). Not that I have anything at all against Tidus, but I see no real story indications that he should be such a mighty warrior. I therefore still suggest that you need to look at indications during the story of the game, as to who shows the greatest potential. It’s a long time since I have played FFVII so please correct me if am wrong: The weapons was created by the plant to deal with the Jenova threat and take care of anything on the planet that was a threat towards the planet itself, but because the original inhabitants managed to take care of the threat on their own, the weapons went into a hibernation until the planet would summon them again. When the weapons are awakened again, I recall that we see them among crystallized mako (lifestream) which to me gives an indication that the weapons was created with the only means the planet has at it’s disposal; lifestream. So concluding that one of the weapons should be the planet itself in and incarnated body would seem a bit far fetched? And Ultimecia is hardly a random Sorceress; she manages to break down the structure of time itself, she is able to merge herself with the most powerful GF that Squall knows of (I think that is what it says when you scan Griever). I have not yet played all the games, but this display of powers is rarely seen in any other game? Well yes Chaos did create a time loop in FFI and yes Kefka did manage to turn summons into their pure magical essence so that we could use them in FFVI. But I still don’t think that Sephiroths ability to steal an old materia and handle a ridiculously large sword quite compares, because as I have already earlier stated: The powers that Sephiroth tried to use to destroy the planet was not his own but powers he had stolen.

I don’t know why my inputs always get so long, sorry.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:20 am 
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You want to see it from a story vs story perspective and that's fine. If you want to take all the magic out and make Cloud and Squall real people and see who would win in a fight I'd have to say Squall because he has a gun and we all know you don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

I still don't see how you can take the fight that way, to which I still say :
Quote:
And how can you say Ruby and Emerald weapon don't compare to the enemies Squall fought? Ruby counters with ultima... no enemy in FFVIII counters with ultima... Emerald kills your entire (lvl 99 with best equipment) party in one move (Aire Tam Storm) at his whims... No enemy in FFVIII does that...


With your logic a caterpillar from FFVIII could kill a legion of Emerald Weapons for all we know.

Also, LeonPayne stated X was different than VII and VIII - he never stated VII and VIII were different from each other. Regardless of a programming point of view, Tidus with a maxed sphere grid is the single most powerful lead video game character in an RPG ever created.

For the record, Sephiroth is a vagina compared to the Weapons. I find it interesting that the things you mention that Ultimecia does don't actually do anything to the party... your talking story vs story not battle vs battle, which to me, has no bearing in a "who would win in a fight" thread.

The thread was Cloud vs Squall - with any equipment from their respective games of their choosing it's obviously Cloud, they can both do over 100k in damage and only have 10k in life but Cloud can auto-revive, those facts are irrefutable. You want to say that it comes down to VII's monsters vs VIII's monsters that really says who's more powerful, I say Ruby or Emerald would pwn Ultimecia. The only card you have, you haven't even played, and that's the fact that Omega from VIII pwns them all :P


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:50 am 
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Nerthul wrote:
In that case Cloud wins, Squall was an emo since he was four, Cloud however started being an emo when he was... Around ten I guess?

Therefore, Squall comitts suicide a few years earlier than Cloud, and Cloud wins.


the thing is, they arent suicidal ,they are emo, they only talk about suicide and pose that they WOULD do it, and if they DID do it they would call downstairs to thier mommy's
so fiths point standsXD

sorry guys i had to xD


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:07 pm 
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:lol AHAHAHA


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