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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:04 pm 
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Could've done it like Kingdom Hearts, that was a pretty good battle system (except for the "mash x to beat the game" glitch) I do like how FF changes the powerup and battle system in every game and inevitably they are bound to screw the pooch and flub one entirely, which is what I attribute FFXII's overall crappiness to.

The problem is when you make programmable triggers in a game, unless it's on a super small scale, it's going to cheapen the battle system, unless monsters are overpowered enough to overcome this.

I made the mistake that the first time I saw the T-Rex, I powerleveled until I could take it down, then the game was all downhill from there. I was massively too powerful for the rest of the game. The hunts had some challenges though... I remember an ooze that gave me some trouble because of status problems...
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:41 pm 
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I like the battle system of Kingdom Hearts a lot and I would have liked FFXII as well if it werent for all those stupid gambits. I refused to use them almost all of them. The only one I did use was to cure if health was below a certian percent. I just feel if you used all those gambits wheres the fun? You arent actually doing anything at all you might as well set the controler down and walk off. I dont know about you guys but when I play a game I actually want to be playing it XD

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:29 pm 
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I agree with Tifa that FF12 was part of an experiment to develop a new fighting style. Buuuut...Square had already played around with this in FF11 and with kingsom hearts in a way. I thought the battle mode in FF12 was the best part of the game though. I controlled one character (who was a spellcaster/healer) and made my computer pals do physical damage/buffing.

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you loved the ff12 story though?
....there was a story?XD
i just thought there where random convo's to push the game alongXD


I agree with that. They had a lot of talking about war but it went straight out of my head since none of it seemed to relate to any of the characters after a while.

And yes, no character development.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:11 pm 
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Also keep in mind though that I have not actually played any of the FF's a second time, except for 7 when I decided to beat ruby and emerald weapon (and that was in '98. Sometime I'm going to go back and replay 7 and up (and maybe actually beat 9, lol) so we'll see if me being 22 and not like 10 tells me something different.

......which it probably will, lol.

I don't know though. I enjoyed it quite a bit. I don't know if that was because I had not played a genuine Japanese RPG since FFX-2 and thus was like RPG deprived, or what. I guess I'll find out soon enough once I start my replay through the FFs (don't feel like playing the pre-PS games though)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:30 am 
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then you can realise that there is a huge love story in ff9 XD
jeesusXD

and that it is one of the best XD

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:52 am 
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Cloud, if you don't want love stories in your games you better start looking for some other series to start playing. There was some sort of love story in FFXII, but it wasn't that obvious and fans started making their own assumptions based on explanations the game did not provide. The game lost a lot of its influence without the love stories. I didn't mind the politics, it's not a reason not to have a love story.

The best love story in my opinion is the one in FFIX and the game itself is my favorite after FFVII. Moving to FFVII's love triangle; Cloud wasn't in love with anyone during the entire story and still is. Tifa was his childhood crush, it's true that they connect with each other probably more than the other characters do and there is some sort of special bond between them, but people have to start to realize that the bond they have is nothing more than close friendship, they are best friends and they are always there for each other, but it doesn't mean they are in love. Tifa may have a crush on Cloud but he doesn't. As for Aeris, well I never was a fan of that girl, she is all over Cloud, she flirts with him openly while Cloud had only respect for her. Cloud never loved nor had a crush on Aeris. Cloud thought he was Zack for the majority of FFVII, thus his romantic feelings, if he had any, they were not his own; they were Zacks, which Zack had told him of previously. And if Aeris ever had feelings for Cloud it was only because he reminds her of her long lost love Zack, she admitted that she saw much of Zack in Cloud. Of course Cloud was sad that she died and blamed himself for not being able to save her as her bodyguard... etc. However; the other characters were also sad that Aeris died.

I agree with Aruko that the Gambits ruined FFXII's battle system. However there are other things that come close to its uselessness; Technicks (never used them), Espers (Don't know why they exist in the first place, very useless). Battles were super boring. FFXII could have been much better if SE didn't focus on the graphics and sound.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:31 am 
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Man soo much hating for FF12! Are you guys seriously complaining about the gambit system? Any good player of FF12 who played the whole game, knew gambits meant nothing! I was always manually doing stuff with my characters even though I had almost all gambits in use. Even my friend who played almost all the FF agrees and likes FFXII

I would put this game above FFIX any day of the week, with the exception of summons( and Vivi best character of FFIX IMO), I think they got that wrong in FFXII.

I liked the step away from random battles and more into real time stuff, for the sole reason being I hated trying to guess when a battle was coming up... The random thing is kinda getting old, I like it but it has a dated feel to it. I'm thinking they are going to be phasing out the ATB in favour for other styles!

I'll agree that the story took a back seat to the gameplay, but if you read all the character/monster/summon blurbs in the Clan book, it has soo much stuff in the background you might have missed.

The reason people may not have liked it was because they do step away from the love story and this is more about political intrigue. I think it says it best "a story filled with politics and international intrigue over the usual band of characters up against a fantastic villain"

The amount of side quests and material was great though, more than any other FF if I'm not mistaken...

FFX (which I enjoyed) put more to the story and less to the combat, and the game played like a movie.

One of the big things people are missing was that... Really when it boils down to it, there wasn't a "main" character... I mean Va'an and Ashe could be considered "main" but I didn't feel like there was any one character that was a main one... FFVII forced cloud to be main (storyline and game play)


Like Cloud said for FFVII, Cloud (game character) thought he was Zack for a large portion of his life... and Zack definitely told him about Aeris (actually Cloud was there to witness it in FFVII:Crisis Core) so I think that is where Cloud's love of Aeris comes from, and Tifa and Cloud was the major one (more so on Tifa's part and I think FFVII:AC shows that)

World size wise though, no other Final Fantasy comes close (Not including FFXI) to FFXII! Not talking world maps with random battles! I talking actual walking around places! Soo many and soo huge!

A lot of people are of opposite mindsets of FFXII sucking, I think if you were lookign for the tried and tested, band of chars defeats uber villian and love story you weren't going to like it..


Though there were some epic battles! I mean King Behemoth was huge not to mention Yzramat (last hunt guy however you spell his name) Just the size alone was cool!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:16 am 
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You are discussing secondary things and leaving the essentials on the side.

Who would pay attention to the side quests if the main thing is flawed? Regardless the fact that they maybe in fact good.

I had to do everything manually to make the game a little more fun, but it also means I had to pretend that a huge part of the system, which is the Gambits, does not exist, any player won't do such a thing if the system was good in the first place. I thought the design of the areas and places was very good, but the sucky battle system made the spacious areas a problem to deal with not something to enjoy.The concept of FFXII's battle system is an excellent one and in my opinion it could have been the best battle system beside Kingdom Hearts', but the way it was introduced in the game was horrible, it probably made it the worst after FFX's. I would say it was a major disappointment instead of flawed.


Edit: And FFXII is not even close from being as good as FFIX.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:03 am 
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And you are wrong, the world for FFVII is 10 times the size of FFXII

I am currently playing through FFVII again (I'm guessing around the 15th time) and this time I'm supporting a romance between Cloud and Tifa, which I've never done before, to see if that changes the feel of the game. I'll let you all know how that turns out.

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You arent actually doing anything at all you might as well set the controler down and walk off.


That is what I did...

The Gambit system was seriously flawed. If you set one person as a non combatant who focused on healing and buffing, a secondary healer who's primary was to attack and only heal if necessary, and the third was solely a combatant with emergency heal/resurrect, you could go into the hardest boss battles and set the controller down to go make a sandwhich.

I will give you that FFXII had more 'to do' than any game I've ever played (other than games like spiderman and GTA where you have to collect 8000 newspapers and 40000 dead babies in sewers, but that crap doesn't count) And I had a great time doing the hunts. But I could set gambits and give a toddler the controller to powerlevel me.

And to play devils advocate, some of the technicks were useful. I don't even remember espers so they must've sucked a fatty...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:20 am 
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Just to comment on Lara way up there.

It's not that I don't want a love story in the games. It's just that I like a little variety every now and then. It wasn't the 'love stories' that made me a Final Fantasy fan. It was the fun and unique atmosphere of the games, the fun characters, the music and storylines, and just the whole concept. For example, if Final Fantasy X had not had as much action, suspense, engrossing atmosphere, etc. as it had "love", I probably would not have liked it as much. I was never fascinated with love stories. I'm not sure I'll even get married myself. I'm too caught up in my own professional life and there's practically nothing making me WANT to start a family. We'll see if that changes over time, but I don't need love in the games for me to have a good time.

I like "epic" stuff. My favorite movies are the classic Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and Braveheart. Braveheart in particular had a strong emphasis on the love between William Wallace and Princess Isabelle (as well as his wife at the start of the film). However, the film had an equal amount of focus on William as an individual, his believes and the events surrounding him.

Final Fantasy usually has that sort of balance. Hopefully everything I just said makes sense.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:32 am 
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Uhm lets see XD I get what Cloud is saying. However Final Fantasy has always seemed to have a sort of balance so the love story never took away from the game it actually added to it and made it more intersting and dramatic...at least for me anyway.

My take on the FFVII triangle was that Arieth did indeed love Cloud, and yes probably because he reminded her of Zack so much...but I believe she still did. I think Cloud loved Arieth back also...and I dont know if that was just because he thought he was Zack. I mean sure he did but I think his emotions are still a lot of his own. I also think Tifa loved Cloud a lot, but he was too stuck on Arieth to return her feelings. Of course I only played that game once...cuz Im not big on playing through games...just like I cant read books again because I know whats going to happen. Though it probably doesnt matter how many times you play through the game because unless you phone up square and ask the writers its all a matter of oppinion anyways, that just happens to be mine. I havent yet played Crisis Core so I wouldnt know if that would change my views about it.

As for FFXII the techniks I thought were also not very helpful...I honestly cant remember using them...As for the espers though I did like them and did use them from time to time. Although I gotta say it bugged me that they did away with all the old ones and set their names to ships. Dont get me wrong I like the new, but I would have also loved some of the classics...and the fact that they redid the moogle aggraviated me...what was wrong with the old moogle? I liked them better XD Compared to other FF's there was a good amount of things to do on the side...and yeah that probably was one of its only good qualities. Although if you've played a good many other RPG's this isnt so special. Its not like they did anything groundbreaking...and for me FF usually is groundbreaking. So its a bit of a let down when it isnt.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:39 am 
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my turnXD

and i agree with rukie like we discussed on mic XD

my view of the tifa,cloud,arieth relationship

even if cloud or areith had other reasons to love each other or to have those feelings
wehjter it was because of zack or not
they wouldnt do away with those feelings altogether
but aside fromt hat i always though like rukie said
cloud liked tifa and tifa adored cloud but cloud was too stuck on aerith to notice.


mabus you just said dont complain about gambits and practicalyl said they where useless?XD
eother you see them as useless or that they are used to much it makes playing the game pointless.
apparently depending on who is playing.

the ff12 dtoryline was..just...not even thereXD love or political eoither way it wasnt complete.
you like the atmoshphere of ff games cloud?
but....i didnt even think that ff12 gave of the FF feel, it just didnt seem like i was playing a FF game when i played it
it just didntXD
it was nice to see the monsters and be able to avoid them like you SHOULD be able to do, and yeah it would have been nice to be able to summon ifrit etc.
its almost a part of FF which i hope they will bring back XD
id id use espers sometimes, especially the fire thing? cant remembert the name, not the horse.
and i practically NEEDED it int his one place filled with those blob things when you pull a leverXD


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:03 pm 
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I think I'm going to have to play the game again, i don't remember the espers at all...

And you never know, the first time I played 8 i didn't like it at all

Only when I played it through the second time did I really start to love it.

I think Square's 'Infinite Undiscovery' was more of a FF than 12 was and if anyone hasn't played it, I suggest renting it, only took me like 28 hours to beat the first time through.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:41 pm 
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Cloud wrote:
Just to comment on Lara way up there.

It's not that I don't want a love story in the games. It's just that I like a little variety every now and then. It wasn't the 'love stories' that made me a Final Fantasy fan. It was the fun and unique atmosphere of the games, the fun characters, the music and storylines, and just the whole concept. For example, if Final Fantasy X had not had as much action, suspense, engrossing atmosphere, etc. as it had "love", I probably would not have liked it as much. I was never fascinated with love stories. I'm not sure I'll even get married myself. I'm too caught up in my own professional life and there's practically nothing making me WANT to start a family. We'll see if that changes over time, but I don't need love in the games for me to have a good time.

I didn't mean to say that the love stories are what Final Fantasy games are all about, I meant that those kinds of stories take the majority of the storyline, and considering the fact that we're speaking of an RPG the storyline is the most important part, at least for me, just to clear out my point. I see your point though and I agree with you that having some sort of balance is the best. That's why I prefer FFIX's love story over the rest; it was wonderful in an old-fashioned way, yet there was a balance in the overall theme. But if a Final Fantasy game didn't have a love story, like some say FFXII is, then that also makes it unbalanced, simply because it's Final Fantasy.



I will tell you guys what FFXII seriously needs; it is something called "Auto-movement". You can activate it along with the wonderful Gambit system and you will complete the game without even knowing it :P


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:35 pm 
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lmao. That's interesting Lara.

Or better yet, "cinematic mode". Skip the grinding and just watch the game as though it were a movie!


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